I just wanted to have a sort of discussion topic here...

First, I'd like to address the main component of Terulia.
From what I've read so far it's going to be strongly PvP / Skill based. That's cool for like, a small group of elitist who play the game non-stop. But let's take a step back here guys. Don't look at it from your almighty Terulia-Pro eyes.

I'm a newbie. I join this game. What are my choices? Instantly struggle trying to gain power fighting monsters who aren't worth my while in this new game? Or should I try and PvP a majority of players that know what they're doing and will easily be able to defeat me, effectively screwing me out of gaining at all in the game?

As a newbie I won't have a clue what's going on in this overly-complicated, intricate game design. Even in FFO our outlaw system repeatedly ends with the innocent Newbie taking the death. Now let's make that even more complicated. Good luck, newbies.

And while I'm talking of new players. What makes people play FFO so much? There have been a lot of new players in my time who have really stuck around. These players didn't PvP from level 1. Many of them gained tons of levels and put TONS of hours into leveling and learning the game. This is something you're all trying to avoid for some reason. Why? Constant PvP isn't going to keep people addicted to an RPG game. Constant PvP are for games that start everyone equal. Shooter games, for example. You don't need to level in Medal of Honor. You just start and put your wits to the test.

In fact purposely making the game THRIVE on PvP is going to kill half of your current population as it is. Tons of these newer guys don't like to PvP. They like to play FFO. But they don't like fighting. If you take out the "play FFO" part in Terulia what will happen to people who have no taste for PvP?

Sure, FFO is very open for PvP. But despite that we've always had a choice. Look at Sarm. Avoided PvP his entire gaming career in FFO. He's also the only one I've known to get all tier 3s and delete his character!

So the point I'm trying to make here is... You want people to play Terulia nonstop. You want people playing Terulia like a Jiristian or Norkian plays FFO. You think me and my crew stay up two or three days in a row with little to no sleep PvPing? Hell no. We spend all that time grinding. We might not like it at times but it's part of what keeps us hooked on FFO. The constant strive to get stronger. Why remove that strive? Why remove the chance for some one to spend their entire waking life playing your game, trying to get stronger?

By the sounds of it I'll be able to cap out in Terulia in a day or two. Then just "train" for some decent armor. Then PvP for a couple days. Then I'm bored. Because I've done everything the game has to offer.

You NEED those different level of players. You NEED people who are God-like strong compared to new players. Because those are the people that have put weeks into your game. And those are the people that drive OTHERS to put weeks into the game.



The next part is a bit of a personal grudge, I suppose. I just want to talk a bit about suggestions... Ever since you've got a "dev" team it really has just put a huge damper in the game. Yes, a damper. Why? Because all suggestions are shot down by the almighty dev team.

Dev teams are nice when the people can help code or icon or whatever. But when a dev team becomes your ONLY source of game ideas you might as well shut down the suggestion forum and stop teasing us. Especially with Terulia and such. Yeah yeah, we don't know what the game will be like etc! But why stifle the community? It's like your putting a pillow over the community's head. Blinding it from the game, silencing it from screaming out, and slowly suffocating it.

Maybe this will change once Terulia is "out" and playing. But I doubt it. It started like this once we had "dev" for FFO even. We used to have tons of super cute suggestions on FFO. Every newbie had cool ideas. I don't even SEE newbies joining the forums any more, let alone getting enough balls to post a suggestion without fear of being BANNED for it or something!


That is all for now, I suppose.

I just wanted you guys to know that I have heard the community. Even the newbies (to me) are looking back a year or half a year with sad faces. Really sad faces. :(

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I was going to post a lot. But it's pointless. Gaku's just going to continue this Terulia stuff, and when/if it fails miserably, maybe he'll bring back FFO. Maybe not.

If FFO is truly scrapped and never comes back, it looks like I won't need BYOND anymore, since it's the only game I play.


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Sadly (very sadly) I could probably type out a five-page essay on my thoughts about all this, so instead I'll just cut to and summarize some points that I think would be nice contributions to this topic:

Money. Is it really worth all this effort, time, and sacrifice of players to get rid of the Final Fantasy theme so meager amounts of money can be made? Wasn't Terulia supposed to happen years ago by now? How much money would realistically even be made? And isn't it sorta discourteous to throw away Final Fantasy after all it did to jump-start Final Fantasy Flashback and then Final Fantasy Online?

The Game (shut UP). This version of Final Fantasy has been the closest it has ever been to balance between the classes, and the best part would have been that since the game had been constantly changing and tweaking itself in the past that true balance would have been very closely reached, enough to the point where everyone was reasonably satisfied. It's all being thrown away, and just six classes with simple roles took so long to get this far.

The Players. Obviously it's annoying to have newbies that act like the usual "noob" join the community. Gaku saw the start of the fall of the community when Norkia's presence was going through everyone and wanted them gone. But here's the thing: not only are not a lot of people going to join Terulia for the RP aspect versus the Final Fantasy theme it had going for it before, now we're going to probably keep the people that say 4chan stuff and nothing else. Trust me, that's not better; I've almost wanted the entirety of the second half of the people that have joined FFO to leave forever. A lot of the fanbase is now racists and furries, and both are detriments. It's like the losers at school who got picked on and were always too scared to speak up to bullies love saying the nastiest stuff online where no one can see them. Really shows what kind of people you have around.

Good luck trying to call prejudice on me too. I dare you to show me one furry that isn't completely messed up. Every. Single. One. I wouldn't be surprised if in the future a study reveals that you have to have a certain amount of mental deficiency for your mind to allow you to have a "fursona". Not one bit.


There really is no hope for the future. Many people have already pointed out all the flaws, we here in this topic included many times. Gaku has this attitude where if someone disagrees with him, he's immediately trash and that's that, regardless of the past. Cea and I did so much for FFO, and Gaku has no respect for us unless we're nice to him again just so one of us would help him with something now (this would be Cea, since I don't really do anything and usually forget about this place for long periods of time). Even Malthros, someone I thought Gaku would honestly revere, spoke his mind once on the community, and Gaku just bashed him and that was that, Malthros left forever.

You can see what you're surrounded by Gaku, and you could see what they really are, and what you did wrong by not caring enough (that's what it really comes down to). But you won't care, just shrug it off, we don't matter, and in your mind everything's going fine. Enjoy your filth of the internet I guess, thanks again for making FFO since the game and the people I made friends with back when it had standards and decency have still lasted me to this day.

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Dear Gaku,

I love you.

Think about what you're doing with the game, who you're listening to, and why it is that you're listening to them.

If you don't know those whys, think really hard until you do.

Bye for now sweetie.

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Dear Cea,

If I'm wrong, let Gaku correct me.

Side note: I'm not sure if you've seen any of Gaku's Live Stream, but he explains a lot of changes being made in Terulia as he codes them in. See here

I'm a newbie. I join this game. What are my choices? Instantly struggle trying to gain power fighting monsters who aren't worth my while in this new game? Or should I try and PvP a majority of players that know what they're doing and will easily be able to defeat me, effectively screwing me out of gaining at all in the game?

You're choices, are Denadros, Salamar and Elvewyn.

Like FFO, you're gonna have to start training if you want to get stronger. Monsters and PVP are both options. Since monsters will reward you experience, I'd hardly say that is not worth your while. From the sound of it, natural proficiencies are going to be more important in Terulia. I'd have to go re-check Gaku's on demand where he addressed the issue but if I recall correctly you'll progress your skills more from using them than you would from investing experience into them manually at a trainer.

If you want to PVP before you've joined a Kingdom, go for it. If you want kill monsters, that's also an option.

Leveling will only increase your HP/MP/Stamina and skill caps. This means "Joe Schmoe" the lvl 35 Black Wizard with capped skills/proficiencies won't be one shotting people who have just lost newbie protection (which won't be in Terulia). This leaves everything up to gear, skill, stats, and most importantly teamwork.

Since everything is going NPC-Kingdom based you're gonna be rewarded for working with people in your kingdom, whether you like them or not.

As a newbie I won't have a clue what's going on in this overly-complicated, intricate game design. Even in FFO our outlaw system repeatedly ends with the innocent Newbie taking the death. Now let's make that even more complicated. Good luck, newbies.

No newbie status. Not sure if you're gonna be allowed back into the sorting area once you've chosen a kingdom or not. Takes newbie protection related problems out of the game. FFO is very complicated to those new to it. Terulia is gonna have a learning curve as well. I wouldn't say it's a steeper curve than FFO since a lot of game elements are being simplified.

And while I'm talking of new players. What makes people play FFO so much? There have been a lot of new players in my time who have really stuck around. These players didn't PvP from level 1. Many of them gained tons of levels and put TONS of hours into leveling and learning the game. This is something you're all trying to avoid for some reason. Why? Constant PvP isn't going to keep people addicted to an RPG game. Constant PvP are for games that start everyone equal. Shooter games, for example. You don't need to level in Medal of Honor. You just start and put your wits to the test.

What makes people play FFO isn't going to be relevant. What makes me play Fallout 3 doesn't make me play Audiosurf. Of course people don't usually PVP from level one. PVP on NB is ridiculous. No one wants to be cubed. Unless the other person is hostile, in the party of a hostile, outlawed or a non-newbie you're going to the cube for killing them. Just like FFO has a player base, Terulia will have it's own player base.

In fact purposely making the game THRIVE on PvP is going to kill half of your current population as it is. Tons of these newer guys don't like to PvP. They like to play FFO. But they don't like fighting. If you take out the "play FFO" part in Terulia what will happen to people who have no taste for PvP?

That sounds very factual. Nice way to express your e-pinion. If you don't enjoy PVP you can always grindfest on monsters, although I think if you're not there for kingdom warfare, maybe you're in the wrong place.

So the point I'm trying to make here is... You want people to play Terulia nonstop. You want people playing Terulia like a Jiristian or Norkian plays FFO. You think me and my crew stay up two or three days in a row with little to no sleep PvPing? Hell no. We spend all that time grinding. We might not like it at times but it's part of what keeps us hooked on FFO. The constant strive to get stronger. Why remove that strive? Why remove the chance for some one to spend their entire waking life playing your game, trying to get stronger?

PVP non-stop on FFO isn't feasible. FFO is based around grinding on monsters. That's a strawman argument. You can still spend your "waking life" getting stronger in Terulia. You don't earn proficiencies without work.

By the sounds of it I'll be able to cap out in Terulia in a day or two. Then just "train" for some decent armor. Then PvP for a couple days. Then I'm bored. Because I've done everything the game has to offer.

Level cap. Prof cap. Profs take longer to earn. Your decent armor can be dropped when you die, engraved or not. You've already done everything FFO has to offer "Grind on monsters, kill people, visit and explore New Banian, Vorgardia, Irendi, take a domain" and you're still playing. Another strawman argument.

You NEED those different level of players. You NEED people who are God-like strong compared to new players. Because those are the people that have put weeks into your game. And those are the people that drive OTHERS to put weeks into the game.

You'll have different levels of players still. It just won't such a blatant difference in power hopefully. Again, e-pinion stated as fact in regards to "need for God-like players".


As for your concern about suggestions, the Dev team openly states what they like and or don't like. Ultimately any decisions are made by Gaku himself. Suggestion forum is still open and I'm pretty sure he reads it.

In my OPINION, you guys do more whining and bitching about things to come than making any wholesome suggestions.

Honestly, I'm a Conservative and I'll still say it. You guys are just as bad as all the Conservatives BITCHING about "Health Care Reform."


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I love how people do this. The game's not even out yet and not only are you making assumptions about it, you can't even bother to read the provided explanations/ask further questions about how things work before you jump the gun and subtly flame the devs, calling us elitists and with your sarcastic "Terulia-Pro" comment.

Wait until the beta is finished and the game is playtested before you go off on your copyright Cea & Sinsie's Magical Almost Reasonable Whine Hour(c).

Then maybe you'll be listened to instead of it being taken like the usual "Waaah things aren't going the way I like them because I have a boner for FFO" complaints about Terulia.

Here, let me condense this so you can't take it any way but how I intend it:

Wait and see, then bitch.

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D-D-D-D-Double Post!


Don't take my last post the wrong way. You guys do express some semi-reasonable concerns, but the truth of the matter is that you don't know how it's going to turn out.

This is all speculation, educated guesses based on the little tidbits you've seen me and Dean post and not much more than that.

Nobody knows how this is going to turn out, not you, not me, not Gaku, all we can do is blow smoke out of our asses and say it's going to come out rose-scented.(Or in your case 'warn' Gaku about the 'dangers' of the 'lung cancer' he's gonna get from this ass-smoke.)

And really, that's what you're doing, that's what Sinsie's doing, all of you who get up on your high-and-mighty pedistal, look at the dev reports, look at the Update listings without any actual gameplay beyond some broken fucking-around and declaring "This is going to suck.".

In the end, it's smoke out of your ass. It's propaganda, it's sensationalist, and it's bullshit.

Now, I understand that you probably do have a serious concern for this, despite your excursions in the past where you ran off like a child whose favorite toy has been denied to them screaming that you didn't want it anyway. That's fine. Expressing concern is how the playerbase speaks to the admins and the developers and lets them know what they like/don't like.

Your concerns will be taken into account, but wait until you see some gameplay before you start the essays and lobbying.

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Cea:

I think there is some misconception about what "PvP-based" means. First off, there's still a great deal of debate about exactly how experience is going to be rewarded. Monsters will still be a viable option; however, gains made through combat will be increased dramatically.

The most significant difference between FFO and Terulia in this sense will be in quests and individual goals. In FFO, your one designated goal is to kill Garland. Despite any changes in domain ownership and the powers that be, this goal never changes, and the way players progress toward this goal never changes. In Terulia, your one designated goal is to serve your kingdom. On a given day, this may involve any number of things as delegated from the top down by the GM-controlled NPC leadership. The big events will likely occur on Saturdays (or every other Saturday), and the results of the events will dictate how the story progresses.

When you're not directly serving your kingdom (which is optional, just as killing Garland is optional), you can either fight monsters (as you can now) or engage in PvP. Being PvP-based doesn't mean it's going to be a free-for-all. If your kingdom is at peace with both other kingdoms, then engaging in PvP on your kingdom's behalf would be discouraged. However, many of the events will involve small or large groups of players actively engaging enemy groups (or espionage, etc.), hence the PvP-based designation.

Along these same lines, people who actively disrupt roleplaying will be dealt with harshly.

I consider everything I read on the forums, whether from the dev team or not. However, the dev team has a better understanding of what I'm trying to accomplish and can make better, targeted suggestions. There are many good suggestions that I don't get to simply because other updates are of higher priority.

Sinsie:

All I need in terms of money right now is enough to cover the costs of hosting. If you think I'm being a greedy bastard, then you can't imagine how much money I have personally put into this project in terms of time and actual investments. I'm talking tens of thousands of dollars at minimum wage rates. Here's a fun game... Let's assume I have worked 1 hour per day on FFO/Terulia since I started (a huge underestimate): $7/hour * 356h/year * 7.5 years = more than my yearly salary as a grad student. Add to that other incidentals, like monthly internet costs, the new server, the old server, the costs of recovering the code files when my hard drive failed years back... FFO/Terulia is a fucking money pit. And all I'm looking for right now is enough to cover hosting costs. The website nets about $0.03/day on most days at current traffic levels. So if we have to ditch "FF" for Terulia to legitimately make any money, that alone is reason enough to do so.

But money is still secondary to the main reason I'm dropping FF: the impending lawsuit from Square, the probability of which approaches 100% with each passing day. They sent a cease-and-desist letter to Wiegraf for a game he hadn't even released yet. I'm surprised a disgruntled player hasn't reported the game yet, but when it happens (not if), FFO will be gone forever anyway. And do you honestly think I can post about FFO on any gaming forum right now to draw in new players? Instead of actively expanding the community, FFO frequently experiences stagnation, as the "natural" influx from BYOND is simply insufficient to maintain it. Once Terulia is up and running, I can spend some time (and money) advertising it in places where we will likely draw some new players.

Balancing is going to be much faster in Terulia since most stats can be balanced while the game is running. This means balancers can tweak things in real-time until they are appropriate. There will no longer need to be huge overcompensations every time a stat change is made during a reboot. And as far as job balancing, this should be easier since each job has less total abilities than most of the classes in FFO.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make with the furry bit, but if they aren't trying to disrupt the game (and roleplaying), then I'm fine with people playing however they want.

Past work on FFO doesn't mean much to me if current efforts seek to undermine it. Making posts about how "everything is wrong" do just that. I respect you and Cea as appropriate, but that doesn't mean I agree with you or will put your suggestions into effect by default.

I'm also not sure what you mean about me not caring enough. I don't have time to oversee moderation, and as I've stated time and again, my goal since I started FFO was to make my ideal game. Key there is that it's "my" ideal game, which is not necessarily anyone else's ideal. If you don't share my vision, then I can't really do much for you.

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Garr wrote:

I love how people do this. The game's not even out yet and not only are you making assumptions about it, you can't even bother to read the provided explanations/ask further questions about how things work before you jump the gun and subtly flame the devs, calling us elitists and with your sarcastic "Terulia-Pro" comment.

Wait until the beta is finished and the game is playtested before you go off on your copyright Cea & Sinsie's Magical Almost Reasonable Whine Hour(c).

Then maybe you'll be listened to instead of it being taken like the usual "Waaah things aren't going the way I like them because I have a boner for FFO" complaints about Terulia.

Here, let me condense this so you can't take it any way but how I intend it:

Wait and see, then bitch.

This is the type of attitude that someone head of the Dev team shouldn't have. I know you have a temper when it comes to people that say things you don't like, but can you just cut the crap? Cea was just posting based on speculation, yes, but that's all he can do, is post on what is known about the game so far. There's no reason to fly off the handle, because you aren't any better than anyone else.

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I have to agree with a lot of things in this thread, Terulia isn't even out yet, and is still in heavy development. Yet you people are bringing up a billion points already. Even though this is going to be PvP based, it's going to be side-PvP based. Kill people in your kingdom, you get in trouble for it.

Having it as a free-for-all would ruin the game, every single fucking shit ass hell damn bastard crap Naruto/Blech/DBZ game is completely and utterly ruined by PvP being a free for all where you have to worry about being killed by your own "allies". Gaku knows that, and having three separate Kingdoms will encourage people to team up and not blindly slaughter everyone that crosses their path lest they wind up in Hell with zero chance of escape and a prompt ass-kicking when you get out.

Like Dean said, you're worse than the people screaming about healthcare reform. And like Garral said, wait for Terulia, find the flaws, and then bitch about them.

Gaku wants to make his ideal game. Keyword is "His".

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Aries to be honest, you just repeated points. Honestly.. lol.

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Haze wrote:

Garr wrote:

I love how people do this. The game's not even out yet and not only are you making assumptions about it, you can't even bother to read the provided explanations/ask further questions about how things work before you jump the gun and subtly flame the devs, calling us elitists and with your sarcastic "Terulia-Pro" comment.

Wait until the beta is finished and the game is playtested before you go off on your copyright Cea & Sinsie's Magical Almost Reasonable Whine Hour(c).

Then maybe you'll be listened to instead of it being taken like the usual "Waaah things aren't going the way I like them because I have a boner for FFO" complaints about Terulia.

Here, let me condense this so you can't take it any way but how I intend it:

Wait and see, then bitch.

This is the type of attitude that someone head of the Dev team shouldn't have. I know you have a temper when it comes to people that say things you don't like, but can you just cut the crap? Cea was just posting based on speculation, yes, but that's all he can do, is post on what is known about the game so far. There's no reason to fly off the handle, because you aren't any better than anyone else.

I don't even have a reply for this because I pre-empted it with my second post there.

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My point was it shouldn't happen. PERIOD. It gives people the wrong impression. Especially new people, anyone in the right mind wouldn't even touch a game that the head of dev was such a raging tool such as you.

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Garral only rips your head off if you push his buttons too much. Protip for life: If someone seems pissed, then you back down and let them cool off.

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Thanks Gaku. I expected Garral and Dean to make asses of themselves but I didn't expect your post to be the most useful.

Garral really, no matter what you think or say your posts just solidified the point I was trying to make. I hate the expression but, pot calling the kettle black. I'm on a high horse? Pah.

Dean, your post was a little more helpful at least. If I ignore the subtle flames I can get some things out of it...

Being in the dark sucks with the Terulia thing. Livestream updates are cool but look at the name, live stream. That means it's live. That means I'm not going to be there 24/7 watching to make sure I don't miss anything.

And some posts are being made, like with Garral's forum there. But then from what I've read, like I said, I just got a feeling all those two cared about were PvP this PvP that. Now Gaku just hinted at Quests and RP and Kingdom development. THAT is huge to me. That gives me hope for Terulia. Give it a rest on the PvP a bit guys and look at the GAME. Try and talk about the GAME.

And Gaku, Sinsie wasn't implying that you should automatically listen to us all the time. Don't want you to get the wrong idea there.

For real though Gaku, thank you for taking my post as a questioning / debative post and not just flaming me like I tried to point out would happen in my post (and did :P).

And all of Aries posts are worthless as expecting. I wonder if he's trying to go somewhere in this game....


Anyways I gotta work soon so maybe I can continue this later and make a less-passive post.

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If you look at the livestream link I provided, you'll see an on demand button. Click it to watch previous shows.



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I can't hear gaku on live stream even with my volume maxed and maxed on live...

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Ask the appropriate questions, then. I posted a thread about questions because I want to know what people want to hear about.

I try not to just dispense information at random because honestly, my job is mainly game mechanics. I don't really get to look at how Gaku's working on kingdoms and flavor, or Dean's mapping and icons. So I get people to ask questions, talk to the appropriate people, and we formulate an answer to educate the curious public.

If you want to know about the game(boldgoeshere), ask about the game.

And yes I do tend to jump the gun and tell you exactly how I think at the time, but I feel it's best to be truthful most of the time as long as I'm not calling you a useless shitguzzling fuckbag.

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I don't feel like making a real post or anything so here's a few quick facts....

I'm a part of Development and basically all of Gaku's post is news to me. I've never heard about this live stream thing before now.

It seems like Garral and Dean are using Gaku to make the game the way they want.

Cea and Sinsie are right about Garral. See his posts in the questions topic...:

Wah wah wah wah wah wah wah why don't you go shit up threads elsewhere? Anyone threadshitting here will have to answer to my good friend B. Hammer.

Yes well, it's a good thing we don't listen to what you think, now isn't it? Closing kingdoms does make some sense from a balancing angle, but it would simply piss people off if they wanted to bring friends into the game and play with them.

I don't think you are restricted to only partying with kingdom members, just that you can't trust non-kingdom members.

As if his second post even makes sense. "its stupid to close kingdoms to balance out the numbers because people will be pissed when they join the game and want to party with their friends EVEN THOUGH you can party with people in other kingdoms. i'm right, you're wrong."

Idk why I'm even bothering. You all know how Garral is. Remember when he threatened to stop doing dev work when Locke took his admin? Lol.

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@Exophus

If you'd bothered to read the entire thread you might have caught this little tid bit:

Gakumerasara wrote:

Cea:

I consider everything I read on the forums, whether from the dev team or not. However, the dev team has a better understanding of what I'm trying to accomplish and can make better, targeted suggestions. There are many good suggestions that I don't get to simply because other updates are of higher priority.


I'm also not sure what you mean about me not caring enough. I don't have time to oversee moderation, and as I've stated time and again, my goal since I started FFO was to make my ideal game. Key there is that it's "my" ideal game, which is not necessarily anyone else's ideal. If you don't share my vision, then I can't really do much for you.

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