Before the WLC hits 25 and people start massively nolifing Garland alt running, I would like to propose a dramatic but essential change to Garland.

Raise the minimum level to enter Garland's floor to level 55.

Garland gives endgame gear, and as it stands, people have been taking advantage of his drops for at least as long as I've played. If that doesn't indicate something is wrong, then I don't know what else would. As such, only endgame characters should be able to fight him.

Once the WLC hits 25, I can guarantee that people will return to Garland farming. This will never stop unless something is changed about the level requirements for Garland, since that is the main issue I see with him.
Dragons can't even be farmed at 25, yet Garlands can.
Logic?


However, as a counterbalance, make it so you can return to the bottom floor once you beat Garland. It literally does nothing but **** people over, and with the requirement being level 55, if they kill Garland and immediately die (this happens way too often. Seriously), they aren't totally **** out of luck for that drop.

I feel that this is the best way to balance Garland's awesome drops, while still being worthwhile to actually do.



inb4 nolifers protest

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maybe 40, 45 instead? at the start of endgame instead of the end

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Level 30-35 is ok.

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reply to Dr. Letha:

Would like to see a buff to his drops/chests. The last garland I did I actually received iron bludgeons for my chests. Make the drops level 55 worthy.

Other than that I support this idea.

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reply to DeshTheWraith:

A really cool solution would be to buff Garland's base level by one or two, which would prevent him from dropping lower-end items that really aren't worth it.

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I could probably still produce a Garland a day or two with this change.



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reply to Dr. Letha:

Anything to make a level 55 requirement actually worth it.

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Don't see why garland farming is such a problem when some people are farming champion snowmen at level 21 thus making Irendi Guardhouse debatably more of an issue of OPness than Garland.

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A Champion Snowman doesn't have a 100% chance of spawning the moment you enter Highlands, nor are its drop values anywhere near as static as Garland's.

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1) You might be disappointed in your Garland drops this time around since high-end gear has become more expensive.
2) There's no guarantee your Garland drop will be good in the first place.
3) I like this idea, but if I change it, I expect *****ing to be kept to a minimum when you don't get that epic drop you were planning on.

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reply to Dr. Letha:

A champion snowman isn't a one time fought monster per character and is also pretty much accessible to one group only leading to a tilt in power that is far greater than just garland farming. You're getting epic drops from level 21, I can't do that unless you permit me to go through IGH. It's not like that domain is anywhere near takable.

Point is, I don't see why Garland alts are that big of a deal with dragons, champion dragons, champion shroomas plains champs and just pure luck. Everyone can do garland alts so there is no real imbalance in my opinion. Raising the level cap won't stop the determined anyway.

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Grameramera wrote:

1) You might be disappointed in your Garland drops this time around since high-end gear has become more expensive.

That's a good thing.

2) There's no guarantee your Garland drop will be good in the first place.

The base level boost should theoretically make him drop at least something of good use.

3) I like this idea, but if I change it, I expect *****ing to be kept to a minimum when you don't get that epic drop you were planning on.

Deal.

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Nerserus2 wrote:

reply to Dr. Letha:

A champion snowman isn't a one time fought monster per character and is also pretty much accessible to one group only leading to a tilt in power that is far greater than just garland farming. You're getting epic drops from level 21, I can't do that unless you permit me to go through IGH. It's not like that domain is anywhere near takable.

Point is, I don't see why Garland alts are that big of a deal with dragons, champion dragons, champion shroomas plains champs and just pure luck. Everyone can do garland alts so there is no real imbalance in my opinion. Raising the level cap won't stop the determined anyway.

Champion Snowmen and Plains champs only drop really worthwhile-to-use stuff once every moon cycle.
If you have a problem with Irendi Guardhouse, then blow your way through it.

Dragons haven't been tested this hosting, so that doesn't matter yet.

Champ Shroomas can easily drag party members down with it in its demise.

Garland will almost always drop stuff that hits the shop cap, so no matter what, you're getting a free 100,000+ gold, and possibly even a stupidly epic item at level 25.

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Wrong, the average champ shrooma drop is actually more valuable than any other champ drop in the game besides dragons AND they're extremely easy still at this level.

Snowmen are the only monsters in Highlands that have a valuable drop, the other 3 possibilities have horrible drops. Highlands are also much more dangerous than Water Temple.

Plains have champ drops that are very close to Highlands, so that in addition to shroomas makes Highlands rarely at an advantage. Ruins are also not blocked off by Irendi Guardhouse and evilmen have better drop values than snowmen.


As for Garland, I would suggest level 40-45 instead of 55 and his base level increasing by two (if that's even possible).

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Dr. Letha wrote:

Nerserus2 wrote:

reply to Dr. Letha:

A champion snowman isn't a one time fought monster per character and is also pretty much accessible to one group only leading to a tilt in power that is far greater than just garland farming. You're getting epic drops from level 21, I can't do that unless you permit me to go through IGH. It's not like that domain is anywhere near takable.

Point is, I don't see why Garland alts are that big of a deal with dragons, champion dragons, champion shroomas plains champs and just pure luck. Everyone can do garland alts so there is no real imbalance in my opinion. Raising the level cap won't stop the determined anyway.

Champion Snowmen and Plains champs only drop really worthwhile-to-use stuff once every moon cycle.
If you have a problem with Irendi Guardhouse, then blow your way through it.(Nope. Nope. Not a personal problem. An everyone's problem that you can't blow through IGH.)

Dragons haven't been tested this hosting, so that doesn't matter yet.(Neither has Garland.)

Champ Shroomas can easily drag party members down with it in its demise.(So wait a minute you're telling me to blow through IGH but Champ Shroomas are hardcore now? You were there when we killed one. They can maybe kill someone not paying attention but if they wipe a party your party must suck real hard.)

Garland will almost always drop stuff that hits the shop cap, so no matter what, you're getting a free 100,000+ gold, and possibly even a stupidly epic item at level 25.(Items are capped at 20k sell price. That's easily achievable by Champ Shroomas. It's pretty unusual to not get something that at least sells well from them. And you can do them any level in theory. As long as you're able to leave NB of course. Whether you can actually kill one early on is debatable but as long as you stay out of melee range its pretty possible.)

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reply to Nerserus2:

Dragons have been changed. Garland has not. Garland also gives 7-12 drops for a single person while champs have to be shared with a party and are random.

Honestly, Shroomas should be nerfed in drop value or moved to a harder area such as ruins. They give too high valued drops for how easy they are and their area, which is supposed to be a step up from the starter area (at least, one would think).



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Professor wrote:

reply to Nerserus2:

Dragons have been changed. Garland has not. Garland also gives 7-12 drops for a single person while champs have to be shared with a party and are random.

Honestly, Shroomas should be nerfed in drop value or moved to a harder area such as ruins. They give too high valued drops for their area, which is supposed to be a step up from the starter area (at least, one would think).

Somewhat agreed on the dragons changed part. Though if they're killable they too can be overpowered. Shroomas definitely need a nerfing though even if I do love them to death for their epic drops they simply can't keep dropping clogs of haste or enchanter tunics of the wolf.

But what if you get a terrible Garland and someone else gets a really good garland. Such as a knight gets a plague mylthos and starts hitting people for 100 tics and some other poor guy gets iron heal bludgeons of blundering that is pretty much entirely useless. That's it. You'd need to level up 45-55 times for another garland on a new alt. Basically making it a slot machine of power. People'd still do it (Hydro) it'd just be more of a pain.

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reply to Nerserus2:

So you would rather that every single player get everything they wish for from a single Garland run?

This isn't the Castle from Nethack.

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reply to Shane:

Dunno what you're on about but I didn't say buff Garland. Getting everything you want from one garland run is ridiculous.



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reply to Nerserus2:

But you're arguing over how luck has the potential of screwing someone over. The only thing you can really hope to achieve with that is make Garland drops a more static type of drops - but limiting it to a certain range is still going to screw over some people in some way. Therefore, the only kind of equal drops for Garland to give is to give precisely what they wish for.

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