Okay so there's a lot of mayhem and chaos going on all across the website. It's touched all forums by now in one way or another. One could say things are out of control. Either way it's escalating so it'll probably end up being out of control sooner or later. Instead of forcing Gaku to read all that random shtuff we are going to settle things here. So let's start with describing what has gone on.

Locke made a highly controversial banning of three people based on something they said. In domain say. This is clearly uncalled for. Locke can leave the domain or turn dsay off and in all honesty as the domain lord I'm tempted to boot him and outlaw him in my domains simply to avoid more of my members being banned for talking. Because he has no jurisdiction in this area (he doesn't, don't argue) it's comparable to some one messaging him on MSN. He could block people on MSN to avoid them. He doesn't need to ruin their experience simply because he thinks he has total rights over everything.

Regardless, after this there was a lot of forum arguing where neither side was willing to cooperate or budge on their views. Soon after a boycott was started. The boycott didn't go over well and they never even made clear their goals to the public. Thus, this added fuel to the fire. Soon Locke himself was trying to find dirt on the boycotters and pseudo-flame them.

Boycott or not it's very clear that something needs to be changed. Those of you who think this game is a dictatorship that is partially true. But when there is one man with total power and no one there to give him power checks then it becomes too much of a dictatorship for the general populace. People understand administration and the mature ones know if they break a rule and get punished they should serve it no questions. But if they aren't breaking a rule they shouldn't be punished; simple as that.

So we are currently in a chaotic war-like scenario right now. Both sides should be able to easily admit this is not good for FFO. So we have some options.

The one you all are probably thinking of is "REMOVE LOCKE REMOVE LOCKE" but you're not thinking ahead. Then we have no admin and tons of people vying for power. When this happens we'll just get worse people to replace him and nothing will be "fixed", or remotely close to it.

Another option is to trash this "head admin" crap. Gaku, you should be the head admin. It's that simple. The only man with a FINAL SAY should be the game owner and that's that. When the admin word first came to FFO it was nothing more than a bunch of guys who could mute, ban, and boot people. These guys were always careful of what they did. They knew they were serving Gaku and prone to punishment.
They also worked together to come to decisions, so Gaku didn't need to step in that often anyways. If a group of admins came to a conclusion it's general knowledge that's a final decision.

Or we could throw admins out completely but with how Gaku talks I'm guessing he has no time for this option like he may have had in the past.

And of course, we can also keep things how they are.



Now, this topic is not to argue points I've made. Yeah, I'm a douche. I'm also supreme overlord of this forum.
The point of this topic is for EVERYONE in the game to say where they stand right now. That's all I want from you guys. Tell me what you want. It is Gaku's game and he has a final say, yes. But no game is complete without people playing and I want the people happy so they stick around.

Also, I'm locking all topics regarding this in forums I have control over.

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You forgot to mention Locke thinks noclipping to avoid being killed is not wrong.

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1.
I dont realy think there was too much control to begin with, i mean there is... but its has been poorly established.

2.
This has been brought up in the past, and yea exactly how you described he just ingnores/mudsling people when he feels as though his decision is final, and at that point its as though they dont matter/ his mind is made up. But in the past people have been able to convince him otherwise. In my opinion, if he was making good decisions to begin with, then it wouldnt take other people needing to reason with him that what he is doing is wrong.

3.
No comment.

4.
Change was required far before the boycott. The boycott has just made it more obvious but i guess you've pretty much said that.

5.
Its quite apparent that the qhole head admin stuff needed to be done away with since the second it came into play. In the past when dealing with the admins i've noticed that nothing the other admins said/did realy had much power backing it up, Meaning only the head admin realy had any power to begin with. although thats obvious my point is the FFO society is far to big for someone who hardly contributes to the game to have so much power in. I mean sure when you think about how "This person moderates and bla bla" but what about when "Well i dont want to get on this guys bad side" comes into play? isint something wrong with that?


Edit:
Haze wrote:

You forgot to mention Locke thinks noclipping to avoid being killed is not wrong.

You forgot to mention how i killed him in sankora and before i could even get off screen he had hopped back up in monster editor mode and then got banned for killing him.


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Okay.

Admins should need valid reasons for banning people that only come from written rules, nothing vague. This has worked perfectly before and any admin unable to work with this is inept at performing their duty. They aren't dictators, Gaku's the only one allowed to even be considered that. They're still regular players like everyone else but with more responsibilities. If they can't handle it they shouldn't be admins in the first place. When their commands interfere directly with other players, it's too far.

There should be more than one admin. It doubles the chances at the very least of someone reasonable being around for every situation that happens. Admins should have to worry about consequences for their actions as well. Right now the worse thing is losing admin. They can still mess things up and then just leave.

The rules should be looked at again and every once in awhile to make sure they're up-to-date, and any big changes have to be agreed upon by Gaku. No more saying "Gaku agreed I asked him" and that being an acceptable answer when an admin does something that isn't allowed. Whether people like it or not making a huge riot on the forums is a bad thing and the best solution is setting everything up so people aren't caught in rude surprises. Even if an admin thinks they're so far in the right, if nearly everyone else is saying no, they did SOMETHING wrong, whether it be in-game or how they handled a situation.

Can't think of much else. A part of making the game work for everyone is making sure the people in charge act in a manner that makes everyone else pleased with. There is no "tough luck" or "get used to it". The problem doesn't go away with just that kind of attitude, and it isn't a solution, just running away from the real problem.

In closing, admins should be completely factual and rule-abiding unless in extreme circumstances where the common player (I'd say person but player works too) would agree with the admin, such as temporarily banning someone who's discovered a way to break the game in some way but the method can't be figured out yet and every time they login it appears as though the game comes close to crashing. That sort of thing.

Otherwise admins will have to remember their place: they're players too. And if the majority of everyone loses their trust in them, those admins shouldn't be admins as something went wrong somewhere and that leads to trouble, which admins should be preventing.

Simple stuff.

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As I said in the other topic, I support the idea of an administrative team instead of one man leading it all. One man can make errors, if he has others to back him up, it's more likely to get done right. I'm always a big fan of the 2/3 rule.

As for Locke's actions or qualifications I have no comments to make.

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The 2/3 rule isn't perfect but it would be a lot better for FFO, but good luck finding 3 candidates for being admins all with equal power to be trusted.

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That reminds me, if we are able to bring change I'd like to have the rules re-written for the current version of FFO. I can talk to Gaku about this and have him read over a new refined ruleset, as Sinsie just said.

And Haze, that is also a valid point and ties into Sinsie's post of admins acting like normal players and not being above that.

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Geeze... i wonder how the administrative staff in terulia will be... and if its Locke.. i'm so not playing terulia.

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Solus wrote:

Geeze... i wonder how the administrative staff in terulia will be... and if its Locke.. i'm so not playing terulia.

I'm told Terulia won't have admins and only "balancers"

If this is true (and I'm assuming yes), this topic is geared at FFO to make sure it lasts until that day.

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I've been thinking over a revised ruleset as well cea maybe we should compare notes after class.

Anyway, I am hugely in favor of having AT LEAST 2 admins, 3 being PREFERABLE but I hardly can think up more than 2 people that play, that would be willing to take an admin position, and that could be trusted with it.

Head admin status would also be garbage and pointless in such a setting, every admin on this team would have equal authority and say in matters, and decisions would have to be communal.

Both admins would have to agree on the fundamentals (we are here to uphold the goddamn motherfucking listed rules, not to push envelopes or prove points, extreme circumstances and grey areas will be VERY CAREFULLY reviewed, VERY CLEANLY AND PLAINLY ANNOUNCED over an official channel such as Asay, and DIRECTLY APPROVED BY GAKU HIMSELF PRIOR TO THE REWARDING OF THE PUNISHMENT), and other than that, differing personalities would be very much welcomed and encouraged, to help keep things in check.

This is the only sort of admin setup I see working out in FFO's interest, gaku, if you read this topic, please consider installing such a system, if the worry would be finding replacements for locke, I have recommendations, you could post these recommendations and see how the community in general feels, I'm sure the whole matter wouldn't take more than a day or two. We're fed up, us active player base, we're ready to strike hard and fast as far as change is concerned.

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Dirty DPs available here.



so...who is your idea for new admins?
Luke- Sarcastic Softie says:
Well, I'm gonna be talking to Gaku about cea and myself, and yes, there's far more reasoning behind it just being cea and myself
We both agree about how an admin should conduct themselves, we both have background experience in moderating games, and the most important part
our personalities clash, we disagree, frequently, but we're both intelligent and mature and can talk it out quickly and reach an agreeable solution
we have opposite views on a lot, it's very democratic, and I know that means to you "nothing ever gets done" but we know how to reconcile, as well as what needs to be agreed on and what is frivolous enough to just be dropped
we can debate each other without getting our feelings hurt and can reach an agreement at the end of that debate we do it practically every day
people don't see those sides of our conversations they just see the THAT SUCKS THATS STUPIT UR STUPIT GOD WHY ARE YOU SO GAY shit but we have a good rapport and sense of camraderie
Locke says:
If you feel strongly about this, why don't you post it on the forums so you can see what the rest of the population thinks of you and Cea being admins?
Luke- Sarcastic Softie says:
I think you're an alright guy locke, you're just terribly ill suited to be an admin
when the time comes for that I will
we need big papa G to express an interest in the proposition of a mod team where each mod has equal authority
because really, having multiple admins with one delegated as an overreaching head admin destroys the point of multiple admins
Locke says:
Not to shoot myself in the foot, but I just think if you posted this now, you'd have a lot more support to show Gaku when he gets back.
You're probably trying to figure out or name in your head what I'm playing at right now...
Luke- Sarcastic Softie says:
posting it as a conversation copypaste then
Locke says:
You must be thinking "theres no way Locke's just trying to help me out".
Ok.
Luke- Sarcastic Softie says:
Locke STOP TELLING ME WHAT IM THINKING you saw what happened just a few days ago when you tried it, lmao
Locke says:
I'd do it, but I have a policy against posting my conversations with people I like against their consent.



Super edit: it turns out that Sinsie is also willing to take the job again contrary to previous thought. There's 3 candidates so far and if more express an interest we can add their names for a potential group of 3 or 2 or whatever.


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Yes, because restoring order and comfort also involves locking an attempt at sanely discussing it when it got overrun by idiots, instead of moderating it properly.


In any case, my stance? Locke's overreacting and the people who got banned should stay banned based solely on how much SHIT they threw the forums into.

Really, the community is just terrible because everyone's so quick to jump on and deride each other. It's like fucking high school in here.


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Cea wrote:

Solus wrote:

Geeze... i wonder how the administrative staff in terulia will be... and if its Locke.. i'm so not playing terulia.

I'm told Terulia won't have admins and only "balancers"

If this is true (and I'm assuming yes), this topic is geared at FFO to make sure it lasts until that day.

Sorry for the doublepost, but can you tell me who told you this? I've heard nothing of it aside from the 'balancer status' thing.

It does sound like a solution to this mess.

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LP/Cea seems like a good combo to me. I could agree with it.

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Oondiv wrote:

LP/Cea seems like a good combo to me. I could agree with it.

As reasonable as LP and Cea are, I'm against it. Nobody in the community right now is fit for an administrative position save Gaku.

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I think someone has to do it, because Gaku simply doesn't have time to manage all of the complaints and other stuff himself.

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Garr wrote:

Oondiv wrote:

LP/Cea seems like a good combo to me. I could agree with it.

As reasonable as LP and Cea are, I'm against it. Nobody in the community right now is fit for an administrative position save Gaku.

No one at all? Good thing this forum listens to everyone and not Garral. But honestly, my opinion is anyone but locke, hes a ok person but an admin... idk...

I could even say the same about myself, i could stand myself as a person, but as an admin fuck no.

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Ok, no clipping was a mistake, I can admit to that. When I took this job, I should have known that it basically puts me in a position where I probably wouldn't be very popular regardless of what I do. That's just the burden of being an admin who also isn't very good at the game. :P

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Solus wrote:

Garr wrote:

Oondiv wrote:

LP/Cea seems like a good combo to me. I could agree with it.

As reasonable as LP and Cea are, I'm against it. Nobody in the community right now is fit for an administrative position save Gaku.

No one at all? Good thing this forum listens to everyone and not Garral. But honestly, my opinion is anyone but locke, hes a ok person but an admin... idk...

I could even say the same about myself, i could stand myself as a person, but as an admin fuck no.

Okay realtalk:

Locke is a pretty good admin. He makes his calls and sticks to them, and doesn't wish-wash all over the place. A little more consistancy in what he'll make a call over could be done, but nobody's perfect.

Even if I was a better admin. :smug:

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Okay so I'm assuming everyone is agreed with the three admin or admin team idea?

Sort of the point of this topic, you know? :P

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