You're comparing apples and oranges bro.



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it made people not care in training parties when people get life too. any time i go out i just click a mob and alt tab and go do other stuff and check back every 10-15 seconds to make sure i'm not dying or that the party didn't run off. i'm sure i'm not the only one who does this either

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I know it not exactly the same but i thought it played well into the logic of complain abut something till it gets removed....

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Stat wrote:

I know it not exactly the same but i thought it played well into the logic of complain abut something till it gets removed....

Or complain about something until it gets added? Like how Life got added to the game to start with like 4-5 hostings ago? Yeah? Weren't here? Cool.

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For once I agree with Dean. The only people qualified to say if Life is a benefit or a detriment to the game are those who have played to the cap (Or close to) without it and with it.

Their numbers are few, but they are here. And most of us seem to think that the game was better without it.

Imagine it. You kill someone, and you know they are going to grave. PvP actually needs to be tactical (Of course this would also require domain warfare to be tweaked again, due to insane guard strength.) and PvE is actually dangerous in places other then the very end game dungeons. It's a level of excitement that the game just doesn't seem to have anymore.

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Along those same lines... What if the following changes were made to Life?

1. mana cost cut in half
2. works 100% of the time
3. caster loses 33% of death experience equivalent
4. revived person loses 20% of death experience equivalent

i.e. Casting Life 3 times = losing as much experience as if you had died and received no prayers.

To address the first suggestion: I don't see any need to change graving or respawn timers in general at this time.



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That's an EPIC change. It'll suck for White Wizards, but hey they aren't supposed to just be heal bots.

I approve this change to make Life more of a big deal to cast.

Edit while I think of it: But as I said earlier. Life is such a crucial spell, any change to it changes every part of the game. Most notably domain warfare. Are we ever going to find a happy median between sucky army and over the top army? Probably not, but it's important to acknowledge that while changing life is a good idea, it'll cause more problems if we don't have foresight.

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Gakumerasara wrote:

Along those same lines... What if the following changes were made to Life?

1. mana cost cut in half
2. works 100% of the time
3. caster loses 33% of death experience equivalent
4. revived person loses 20% of death experience equivalent

i.e. Casting Life 3 times = losing as much experience as if you had died and received no prayers.

To address the first suggestion: I don't see any need to change graving or respawn timers in general at this time.

Sounds good, but I don't see any reason to cut the mana cost in half.

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I dont see why the lifer gets penalized more then the jackass that died.... So while training in a party of say 10 people in ruins or irendi lifer loses a whole bar of experience or whatever it comes out to if 3 people die in the trip. **** that just take it out then

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Just remove all of the unique spells. All x-magic has done is allow cheap kills, all scry has done is made griefing easier, all Life has done is turned pvp into a joke, from what I hear rage isn't that useful, and vanish sucks because it can only be used at night, and masters don't even get anything.

Remove them all. They were a novelty for awhile, but they've created more problems than they're worth.

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If one gets removed then they all should I agree with that. And here come the disagreements

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rage is actually pretty ****ing good because not only does it boost your damage output even more but it prevents people from using other status spells on you that'd be less beneficial like fear and prevents confuse which is nice in the WT

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I forget who but I heard from a couple people that it wasn't that great. Regardless, yes they're useful, but I still think they should all just be removed. All they've done since they've been added is create balance problems.

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Locke wrote:

Just remove all of the unique spells. All x-magic has done is allow cheap kills, all scry has done is made griefing easier, all Life has done is turned pvp into a joke, from what I hear rage isn't that useful, and vanish sucks because it can only be used at night, and masters don't even get anything.

Remove them all. They were a novelty for awhile, but they've created more problems than they're worth.

All but 1 of those is false. And that's the thing about Life.

I don't get why the lifer needs to lose experience though...?

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DeshTheWraith wrote:

I don't get why the lifer needs to lose experience though...?

I don't get it either. The one they're Lifing is the one that died, and the Lifer not only survived but is also helping the entire party by using Life. And I assume all of you know I was not here before Life was added.

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DeshTheWraith wrote:

Locke wrote:

Just remove all of the unique spells. All x-magic has done is allow cheap kills, all scry has done is made griefing easier, all Life has done is turned pvp into a joke, from what I hear rage isn't that useful, and vanish sucks because it can only be used at night, and masters don't even get anything.

Remove them all. They were a novelty for awhile, but they've created more problems than they're worth.

All but 1 of those is false. And that's the thing about Life.

I don't get why the lifer needs to lose experience though...?

Feel free to elaborate and contribute to the topic and actually provide some sort of a counter argument instead of "you're wrong".

Also removing them would remove the need for topics such as this one. We wouldn't have to worry about trying to balance them anymore if they were just removed. I'm sure a lot of players can agree that before Scry, X-Magic, and Life are acquired after a pwipe, the pvp is much more interesting. Once the PLC is high enough to get them, pvp becomes a sort of cruel joke compared to its former self. Fights go from tactical to revolving around Scry your opponent>hunt them down>have lifer sit in the back>get a life if dead>repeat.

Generally X-Magic is either used to cheaply win a one on one duel or blast the other team once and run. Obviously, even if Rage and Vanish are useful, they would have to be removed too to make it fair, and the lack of either one is not going to ruin the class that gets them. If anything, it will improve pvp, because it will create more synergy between classes. Black wizards use berserk on knights, white wizards use conceal on ninja, and you get almost the same effect.

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Locke wrote:

white wizards use conceal on ninja, and you get almost the same effect.

I do agree that it's almost the same effect, but even for the WW's who do have Conceal, why use it on a Ninja? I'm no expert on anything RPG-related, but I think a Concealed Knight would be more effective than a Concealed Ninja of the same level, assuming Vanish was not available.

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It was just an example to show how you could substitute conceal for vanish. It wasn't meant to argue tactical advantages concerning other classes.

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Locke wrote:

It was just an example to show how you could substitute conceal for vanish. It wasn't meant to argue tactical advantages concerning other classes.

Okay, so Vanish can be substituted. What about Life, Scry, etc.?

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DeshTheWraith wrote:

I don't get why the lifer needs to lose experience though...?

because Life should be something that makes a WW think "is this person worth it?"
Instead of randomly lifing every player they see, they'd actually value the ability.
Right now, Life is cheap in every way.

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