Po wrote:

tyr had only died 3 times, so it was on the border, however tiplet died 3 times, then cured a target under attack, and im sure tyr had come south of argo with the intent to attack or troll ace/shatter, and with how tyr is im pretty sure he was coming in-screen to see where they were before leaving screen and coming back to charge

it was an act of self-defence in killing him

The question is, did Tyrael attack first?

Can we get a clear-cut answer for this?

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So how about we have Tyrael, Tiplet, Ace, Shatter, and the admin that did the banning explain what happened/the reason for the ban?

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reply to Tea:

We can't because the game is a circle-jerk.

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Shane wrote:

The lesser evil would be having a player-base that didn't have to resort to killing people as many times as possible without getting killed.

Also, I pointed out that it sorely changes things if Tyrael did not attack first, because that makes him a non-aggressive player. Mobs are clearly aggressive, and anyone that attacks first is clearly aggressive.

If Tyrael did attack first and Tiplet cured Tyrael, then yeah, it's aggression, and the ban should be lifted.

So technically since "self defense isn't an act of aggression", this opens up the possibilities of having the healer that was killed 3 times being unkillable, and able to attack the other team without repercussion. If I attack someone that has been killed 3 times (whether by accident or on purpose), they have free reign to attack me because it's self defense then.

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I don't know if he attacked first personally, Shatter said help in psay which usually means hes being hit, and I walked on screen to tyrael in battle mode etc. Regardless people should know better to not go toward people that are killing them. I also agree that killing people as much as we can is a bad thing. Which is why I did it to the person who does it the most Tyrael. Atleast I chose a player that has been around for awhile hes killing nubs fresh off the boat.

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shatter msned me to tell me that tyr did NOT attack first the third time, however was beefing up etc to attack when ace showed up then tyr ran into town, so im assuming he was preparing to attack until ace showed up, which if they didnt kill him he would have attacked, so in the same way, it can be said THEY were defending themselves
and tiplet cured him

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I don't think he made it into town either to be honest.

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Haze wrote:

Shane wrote:

The lesser evil would be having a player-base that didn't have to resort to killing people as many times as possible without getting killed.

Also, I pointed out that it sorely changes things if Tyrael did not attack first, because that makes him a non-aggressive player. Mobs are clearly aggressive, and anyone that attacks first is clearly aggressive.

If Tyrael did attack first and Tiplet cured Tyrael, then yeah, it's aggression, and the ban should be lifted.

So technically since "self defense isn't an act of aggression", this opens up the possibilities of having the healer that was killed 3 times being unkillable, and able to attack the other team without repercussion. If I attack someone that has been killed 3 times (whether by accident or on purpose), they have free reign to attack me because it's self defense then.

I have no idea how you are stretching my words to state that. Usually I can bridge the gap to stupid responses, but this time I am at a loss.

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Po wrote:

shatter msned me to tell me that tyr did NOT attack first the third time

Then he was a non-aggressive player according to our rules. Tiplet curing him should not count as an aggressive act, in my opinion.

But HERP DERP what DO I KNOW APPARENTLY I STATED THAT ANYONE KILLED 3 TIMES HAS FREE REIGN TO KILL OTHERS.

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Sinsie wrote:

2) Spam-killing is NOT acceptable. Killing, lifing, killing, lifing, killing again does not count as the target is not forced to accept a life prompt. However, killing a non-aggressive target (one who has not struck first) more than 3 times in the span of an hour will not be tolerated. If a player is not fighting back and you continue to keep up the killing the next hour (up to six kills in two hours), this will also count as spam-killing and will not be tolerated. Simply put, don't try to stick to the limit, PvP is a part of the game but absolutely ruining the game for someone in this manner is not acceptable. There are enough people in the game that your focus does not need to be on a select few.

To clarify, if you see a lot of PvP action going on between two sides, don't go standing nearby and let yourself become a victim. If you're afraid you might be targeted, openly state that you do not want to participate. If you have been fighting but wish to leave, don't stay in the area and if anyone sees you tell them you wish to leave and not fight back anymore.

A white wizard trying to Life his friends can still be targeted as it is still helping the enemy to some people. If you try to Life dead people take notice that you are putting yourself at risk of being killed for it and it counts as an aggressive act towards enemies.

This basically means you should give a warning (makes sense because it prevents people from TRYING to get people banned). It also means that if you don't want to die again, you should avoid the people that would attack you unless they are actually chasing you.

I don't know any of the details in this case so I'll leave it to you guys to apply this.

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Tea wrote:

Sinsie wrote:

2) Spam-killing is NOT acceptable. Killing, lifing, killing, lifing, killing again does not count as the target is not forced to accept a life prompt. However, killing a non-aggressive target (one who has not struck first) more than 3 times in the span of an hour will not be tolerated. If a player is not fighting back and you continue to keep up the killing the next hour (up to six kills in two hours), this will also count as spam-killing and will not be tolerated. Simply put, don't try to stick to the limit, PvP is a part of the game but absolutely ruining the game for someone in this manner is not acceptable. There are enough people in the game that your focus does not need to be on a select few.

To clarify, if you see a lot of PvP action going on between two sides, don't go standing nearby and let yourself become a victim. If you're afraid you might be targeted, openly state that you do not want to participate. If you have been fighting but wish to leave, don't stay in the area and if anyone sees you tell them you wish to leave and not fight back anymore.

A white wizard trying to Life his friends can still be targeted as it is still helping the enemy to some people. If you try to Life dead people take notice that you are putting yourself at risk of being killed for it and it counts as an aggressive act towards enemies.

This basically means you should give a warning (makes sense because it prevents people from TRYING to get people banned). It also means that if you don't want to die again, you should avoid the people that would attack you unless they are actually chasing you.

I don't know any of the details in this case so I'll leave it to you guys to apply this.

The issue with that is that it is such a gray area. Especially considering that the people that were actually part of the ban aren't posting (probably because both sides are wrong and don't want to admit because everyone sucks), this is mostly just conjecture.

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Shatter doesn't use the forums po is posting for him, but yeah softcore ffo ftl.

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ace isnt a forumer and shatter is having trouble logging in, and shatter isnt very nice and cant word his words in an intelligent way, i have him on msn and he is feeding me all the info he has on the subject

tiplet entered himself into the pvping, therefore allowing him to be killed, if you go completely by the bolded section

there isnt much grey area honestly, he didnt ask out of it, he didnt just walk away, he cured and entered it

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also at the very LEAST shatter should be un-banned he isnt the one who got the kill, ace got the kill

so shatter didnt commit the spam-killing, he just got banned for what i believe is tyr whining to dean and dean letting sides in a war cloud his judgement

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Shatter says:
i dnt even see why im banned im not the on that killed tiplet the fourth time
maoi yaoi says:
yea
Shatter says:
i was retraeting cuz guard were murdering me and ace bombed tippy


directly taken from msn, shatter didnt get the kill

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yeah for the record shatter did not hit tiplet the last time he died.

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reply to Po:

I was referring to Tyrael and Dean primarily, herp.

Also, there is a gray area, since there's a bunch of things to account for that could change the entire thing if we were to go by, "Intentionally walking near PVP = aggression".

But it would also help everyone involved if you people would just stop trying to ****ing milk PKs in this worthless game and stop trying to get people banned for milking PKs in this worthless game.

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Po wrote:

maoi yaoi says:
yea

maoi yaoi eh. hawt.

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I'll take the ban for my buddy Ace.

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Thanks cea, but the point is that he had other choices aside from coming to us. It is a pvp game and we don't need to baby players imo.

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