reply to Magnus Gallant:

Would it kill other players not to do stupid **** that provokes them getting killed?

Also please, tell me why you are completely ignoring the rest of rule two.

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I'm ignoring it because you're a moron. Honestly how hard could it be to not kill a guy that hasn't touched you? So he walked in to pick up a chest. You willingly went out of your way to kill him a fourth time. No matter what your excuse is gunna be, you deserve your ban.

Maybe you could have lived with out that chest and continued happily playing ffo, instead of being banned and whine about it like a butthurt sore ass about in the forums.

If you cant do the time, don't do the crime.

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reply to Magnus Gallant:

Regardless of your opinion of Reap, flaming still isn't okay. Blacklisted for one week.

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reply to Magnus Gallant:

Why should people be allowed to jew you of your items/gold and walk off like nothing happened? He shouldn't be babied cause he told his friend to boat to vorg 4 times and sit there waiting for him to spawn. be right back killing smith three times then letting him carry stone out of igh because he didn't attack me. They're just items right?

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reply to Reap:

Again, they weren't YOUR items. They were free game.

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If you're in situations like that, then its your fault for going up to the limit on kills and allowing it. It makes sense that by skirting the rules you put yourself in a difficult position others might have an advantage in.

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WyrmDean wrote:

As far as hostile actions go, going to pray for someone and possibly grab their death chest is not a hostile action.

A hostile action is defined as an attack of some sort (this includes hostile skills/spells).

It's the exact same reasoning behind Lifing someone. You don't want people helping their friends if you're fighting them. If they're praying for people or grabbing death chests for themselves or other people, it's helping their side of the fight and it's dumb to give them impunity for that for the same reason that giving a Lifer impunity would be dumb.

The fact is, you can kill people for running up to you repeatedly even if they aren't fighting, because there's no reason to run up to your enemies' location and you're setting yourself up for death. We've had people do this specifically to try and get others banned for spam-killing and we admins said "no you're stupid for going back to your enemies way out of the way".

If you want Reap banned, you make a topic in our forum and you discuss this with me, Jeebs, and Darlute, and if you think we need to make the rule even clearer, we can. Otherwise, you're not getting away with this absolute crock.

Ban revoked.

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Attention Dean:

Don't put the ban back up. It's under question, make a topic and go over it with us if you really want it there, or give it up. Don't sneak it back up there if an admin has a problem with it and we need to make a group decision on it. No ****ing around.

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reply to Sinsie:

Way to make the administration team look uncoordinated and unproper as all holy ****. It shows a lot about the people playing admin when they constantly go against each other's bans, or call each other out in a public forum where everyone will see.

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Shane wrote:

reply to Sinsie:

Way to make the administration team look uncoordinated and unproper as all holy ****. It shows a lot about the people playing admin when they constantly go against each other's bans, or call each other out in a public forum where everyone will see.

It definitely demonstrates a point, huh? I need to get the others in gear, so excuse me if it starts off a little rough.

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reply to Sinsie:

I was referring to you.

Moderating is a lot like parenting. In parenting when one parent over-turns another parent's rule, the child has a tendency to learn that they can do whatever they want. When one parent openly calls out another parent in front of their children, the children have a tendency to distort their ideals of trust based on what they see occurring with their parents.

Your move to unban Reap and call out Dean publicly only stands to open an undeniable bottle of **** and spray it all around the community.

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Shane wrote:

reply to Sinsie:

I was referring to you.

Moderating is a lot like parenting. In parenting when one parent over-turns another parent's rule, the child has a tendency to learn that they can do whatever they want. When one parent openly calls out another parent in front of their children, the children have a tendency to distort their ideals of trust based on what they see occurring with their parents.

Your move to unban Reap and call out Dean publicly only stands to open an undeniable bottle of **** and spray it all around the community.

We aren't children and the admins are not our parents. We aren't going to "grow up" in any sort of way into admins of FFO. Bad analogy sir.

This was a very gray banishment and you know it. Stop acting like it isn't just because you're friends with the trollmin you defend so much. It's not that big of a deal either which way you look at it, whether he accepted the ban or had it revoked. Just because it doesn't favor your personal bias doesn't mean it's going to harm the community.

What do you think is better; a team of admins where only one does any sort of enforcement (poorly)? Or a few that might not agree with each other all the time?

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Haze wrote:

Shane wrote:

reply to Sinsie:

I was referring to you.

Moderating is a lot like parenting. In parenting when one parent over-turns another parent's rule, the child has a tendency to learn that they can do whatever they want. When one parent openly calls out another parent in front of their children, the children have a tendency to distort their ideals of trust based on what they see occurring with their parents.

Your move to unban Reap and call out Dean publicly only stands to open an undeniable bottle of **** and spray it all around the community.

We aren't children and the admins are not our parents. We aren't going to "grow up" in any sort of way into admins of FFO. Bad analogy sir.

This was a very gray banishment and you know it. Stop acting like it isn't just because you're friends with the trollmin you defend so much. It's not that big of a deal either which way you look at it, whether he accepted the ban or had it revoked. Just because it doesn't favor your personal bias doesn't mean it's going to harm the community.

What do you think is better; a team of admins where only one does any sort of enforcement (poorly)? Or a few that might not agree with each other all the time?

Both of those can happen at the same time, and it is actually good for admins that occasionally disagree on subjects because it can help create a less biased administration.

To openly overturn someone else's rule with no prior communication of such, then to tell them to be better at communicating what they plan to do as far as administration actions is not only hypocrisy but also tears at the community's views of the team.

Besides the point that a lage majority of FFO players are young? We are always being impressed upon by our memories, interactions, and senses. The authority figures, in our minds, are supposed to stand above us as a metaphorical machine, and that is what keeps us following the rules. However, when issues such as these that bring the admin team down to a more human level arise, there is a tendency for an increasingly rebellious attitude. After all, if the authority figures can not get their **** together, why should I?

Gray ban or not, Sinsie should not have just completely defaced the image of the admins by completely publicly going against Dean.

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This will be my 1 and only post on this topic so itll be a bit long

1. I wasnt abusing multikey exemption. you guys always cry about how whenever im around or die tippy and josh seem to be there as well and say "hes multi key abusing obviously" when you know absolutely nothing. I have been in skype calls with tippy josh and others from ffo before and you guys accused me of multikeying and we all just laughed. please at least try and semi validate your suspicions before blatantly calling abuse on someone.

2. As far as the admins go you guys are so disfunctional as a whole its not even funny. i do think they way sinsie approached it was a bit immature the correct thing to have done would have been pm/im dean saying "ive removed the ban in question for the moment til we resolve this issueif you have an issue with this letme know". But thats something called team work so I don't know.

3. i actually usually find people not by looking at tippys screen but just by knowing "i see tippy is in their party on his newbie so they have to be on NI i can search the island in 4min flat lets do this" but even if i ask him "where is so and so?" it is no different than me asking desh to scry someone.

4. Shane you are partially right. i dont intentionally try and get them banned but i also do try and get them banned after they break the 4 kill limit. i mean how hard is it to follow such a simple rule? i kill people ALL the time and even in all of that i still follow the rules set out and have yet to be banned yet. the reason these people keep getting banned is because there knowingly and willingly TRYING TO SKURT THE RULES. stop trying to get off on technicalities and just follow the rules.

1/2

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5. Reap you always talk of "well he had other options he didnt pursue them" and my friend i say the exact same to you. when he got off the boat if you were REALLY SCARED hed getmy chest you could have held him next to the boat so he couldnt get close enough to the chest to grab it, you could have bear bowed him away from it, you could have even IF's him across vorg all these were options YOU had as the assaultee and CHOSE to ignore. so if its his fault for coming back its also your fault for not using what resources were readily available to you.

6. The only admin i contact with bans and such is dean correct. but its because hes the only one i CAN EASILY CONTACT. i have no way of reaching sinsiemost the time and darlute doesnt give a **** about the game. Maybe a suggestion is to get a team of admins who are on and make their contact info on skype/aim/msn available to the public? might help

7. STOP TRYING TO SKID AROUND THE RULES AND SEE THINGS THAT ARNT THEIR! all of you are crying "stealing is a hostile action" if this crap is allowed do you udnerstand the reprocussions? "he prayedfor that dead guy kill him", "he pickedup that guys dc which he didnt know was a dc kill him!", "he joined that guys party and saaw his health was low and cured him KILL HIM", and on and on a hostile action is if a player is Attacking you or trying to prevent you from getting a kill by lifing your target or fogging them/walling them/etc those are hostile the rest are not ****ing hostile.

2/2

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reply to Sinsie:

Oh my gosh, finally an admin doing something besides Dean. Finally an admin who doesn't just turn the other cheek and go "oh well whatever I'm sure he knows what hes doing!"

It shows a lot about the people playing admin when they constantly go against each other's bans, or call each other out in a public forum where everyone will see.

It shows the community that someone cares.

Your move to unban Reap and call out Dean publicly only stands to open an undeniable bottle of **** and spray it all around the community.

Or it might help because prior the community thought nothing would be done, and now someone is doing something about it. I'd be happy even if he said he'd just look into it. I'm sure Gaku will be happy, because here we have an admin doing his job by addressing the community's issues civily, which, in the long run, will lead to less whining and reduce direct appeals to Gaku and thus create less for him to deal with.

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I think it's more of a case of a usually absent admin jumping into a situation without having any real idea of what's going on since he failed to even attempt to communicate with me about the issue.

This kind of irresponsibility on Sinsie's behalf is going to lead to people going directly to the 'nice' admin whenever they are punished because they believe they're more likely to get away with their rule breaking.

Also as pointed out before in this thread, most people usually come to me since I'm the only real active admin at the moment other than Jeebs and Jeebs in my opinion is too passive to do his job properly.

(IMO) He worries more about making people butthurt than he does about enforcing the rules and making the game fair and playable for the entire player base.

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I'd like to point out that if DEAN had used the proper channels for issuing a ban, then Sinsie wouldn't have had to call him out on the issue. The reason we have multiple admins is so that they can discuss issues such as these before issuing bans, which should only really be issued after the admins DISCUSS IT, except in the most extreme of circumstances, which this was NOT.

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Yes I am a pretty lax admin I'll admit.

You know why that is? It's because I don't listen to Veterans of the game complaining about a spamkilling rule when the people in question spamkill each other all the time 24/7 and generally hate each other.

If the community wants the admins to show proof or evidence to ease their minds and stop controvery then go and do so Dean. **** man, how hard is it to work with the other admins even if they may or may not be as active. That has no bearing on the attitude your showing.

This is a small community and your actions and words reflect the game as a whole when you took up an admin position.




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Furnishing proof in the future isn't a problem but as I've stated numerous times I have not been saving evidence longer than needed to issue a ban. We never agreed to a system like this in the past so I haven't bothered doing so.

As I've stated numerous times throughout the thread I have been contacting other admins (when they're actually available), telling them the situation, and issuing punishment. I'm not opposed to a system where we publicly post the bans and any supporting evidence but I'll be damned if I'm going to be the one on trial for SOMEONE ELSE breaking the rules when it's my duty as an admin to punish rule breakers.

Your reason for not enforcing the rules doesn't matter. The fact that you're not enforcing them does. If you want to be a guido or advice-broski and not have people get butthurt about you punishing them then go be a guide. If you're going to be an admin you have a duty to uphold the rules regardless of how salty it makes people. When people report violations to you, you're supposed to do something about it. It's pretty simple.

If the rules as they are seem unfair then you anyone can feel free to challenge the rules and ask for them to be changed to something everyone can agree one but you're not going to bite my head off for enforcing them as they are currently.

As far as trying to get rules changed and thinking that the newer revision is going to be retroactive and get you out of your punishments for breaking the rules as they used to be? I'll fight you tooth and nail the whole way.




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