JeebsLuvsPie wrote:

-Champs are easily lured towards domains, Evilmen are never killed in this manner
-Because Snowmen cast spells most of their damage is nullified compared to Bulls or Evilmen which never stop to cast and constantly stalk and hit

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Killa wrote:

JeebsLuvsPie wrote:

-Champs are easily lured towards domains, Evilmen are never killed in this manner
-Because Snowmen cast spells most of their damage is nullified compared to Bulls or Evilmen which never stop to cast and constantly stalk and hit

But there's choke points to easily nullify most of the threat of that area in the case of a Champion Evilman.

And really, only when you are strong enough to either be able to afford to nullify it entirely or are strong enough to nuke them entirely. Contrary to super popular belief, Snowmen have insanely strong basic melee attacks. Even if you nullify it, if you aren't strong enough to adequately damage them, then they will eventually wear you down with melee attacks.

Also, being near domains and the main spawn between one domain and another, they are a much more common spawn compared to Evilmen - if you are deep enough to spawn Evilmen, then you are immediately waiving any non-responsibilities for dealing with them. You are in Hell at that point, and fully expect it.

Evilmen, even Champion Evilmen, just aren't of adequate difficulty to properly compare to a standard Snowman given a lot of factors. Typically, someone that can fully handle a Snowman and that area in general either can or has the resources to handle or begin to handle the issues of a Champion Evilman.

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Champion evilmen spawn with other difficult mobs that cast fear and spam tier 2s, your gear is damaged by the time you get to them, and they hit harder than snowmen. Regardless of chokepoints mindflayers and corrupted souls and sometimes even dark dragons will still hit you. GG SIR.

Also like to point out that snowmen are weak to the majority of elements.. while most will do very weak damage to evilmen.

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I decided to partake in a dragon party with sai ners berry tairn hydro and myself, 6 people

We fought the ember for about 10 maybe 15 minutes, if not more

My gear had been beaten to red near degrading, the wyrm dropped nothing

Where this was a common incident beforee, dragons wre buffed while their drops wre high, and haven't been nerfed with the gear nerf

Dragons either need a nerf to be on EE level, or drops inceased to be worth the attempt

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reply to Shane:

Snowmen are laughably weak. They spam their magic attack too much to use their "Strong melee" ( which is the only thing they and bulls have in common. )

When we took Irendi Guardhouse, we tried out highlands in terrible gear. Just me and Sai. We laughed at how easy it was. How it was just one big pinata for army to whack. You could run around forever and only die if you suck or disconnected.

Contrary to super popular belief, Snowmen have insanely strong basic melee attacks

No. Just. No. They only hit me for 172 at best. And I wear novice gear. Can cure through that without a problem. Now you want insanely strong basic melee attacks? Try frost dragons. Those can one hit you.

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This is still a problem. Come fix it Gaku.

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it was (2005? 2006?) when irendi was added to the game.

at least six years

world of warcraft: the burning crusade wasn't even out yet

and with it, one single little hidden cave, at the very bottom, housed monsters strong enough to appease the power-players who might ever get strong enough to face them. just to give them *SOMETHING* to do since the rest of the game wasn't finished past level ~20-25 content at most.

argo was added since, but as more of a buffer between nb and the later game / an alternative to early vorg. then the dungeon was buffed slightly to be more of an alternative to maybe desert-early irendi level stuff with an emphasis on water monsters which were rare at the time.

there is no true endgame nor has there ever been except these stupid dragons who have been nerfed and buffed and nerfed and buffed a million times yet never felt balanced, never felt 'right'. either they dropped stuff that was too good such that only the clowns who farm them would ever be powerful and that always ended up being this small group of elites that were already powerful enough to pvp anyone who tried to come and fight them themselves, and were becoming more and more and more overpowered as they laid claim to the one and only 'ultimate enemy that drops the best stuff; OR, like right now, they were nerfed drop-wise to the point of not even being worth fighting, and thus completely removing any sort of 'endgame' or anything to do beyond killing the same stuff over and over that will never drop any of the last... what, 4 tiers of items?

and so people talk about garland alting. even though you have to get all the way to level 40 on this system where reaching level 40 would take about one billion times longer than when experience existed, plus force you to actually play the game and not afk, lol. oh plus keeping the character logged in for however many dozens of hours you'd need for your plc to reach 40, constantly leveling and not afking too much in between so your plc goes up as fast as possible. why? because it's currently the one and only way to get good things.

imo:

A) just stop clowning around and remove any item tier from the game that's higher than what the actual current content would logically drop, I honestly wish this was how it was from the get-go so things would be more balanced and all the higher tier stuff being completely un-used would maybe push people to be a little more proactive about seriously creating new content (not like it'll EVER HAPPEN by this point regardless though mirite)

B) just stop clowning around and make it so monsters feasible for anyone, anywhere to hunt as much as they want even if they're not in the 'kool kids klub' to hunt can drop even the best stuff. not just dragons, and just remove them from the game at last until in 30 years the actual content up to their level exists, since obviously it's never going to really work trying to balance them when there's no content in the game between highlands and them which is a pretty massive difference i guess

tl;dr basically i feel that gaku should at last cut the game to what it is instead of trying to hide ways for people to get stuff they 'shouldn't really be able to get' especially such that groups of ultra-nerd players become so much imbalanced-ly impossible to face compared to all the other players -- the exact same reason perm chests were removed. imo garland should be doable low-level as he's supposed to be the endgame of newbie island and his drops should match that and not be higher than like tier 4-5 stuff, nor should any nb boss's; and the dragons should probably just be flat-out removed or only give a lot of gold and no or crappy or just-up-to-the-best-tier-other-enemies-drop stuff, which shouldn't be higher than perhaps 1 higher than post-nb shops at most, OR the higher tier stuff should just become easier to obtain full-stop, from a variety of champs from any of the current late-game dungeons or areas, until the rest of the game's actually completed -- whoops i mean terulia lol

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Elias wrote:

it was (2005? 2006?) when irendi was added to the game.

at least six years

world of warcraft: the burning crusade wasn't even out yet

and with it, one single little hidden cave, at the very bottom, housed monsters strong enough to appease the power-players who might ever get strong enough to face them. just to give them *SOMETHING* to do since the rest of the game wasn't finished past level ~20-25 content at most.

argo was added since, but as more of a buffer between nb and the later game / an alternative to early vorg. then the dungeon was buffed slightly to be more of an alternative to maybe desert-early irendi level stuff with an emphasis on water monsters which were rare at the time.

there is no true endgame nor has there ever been except these stupid dragons who have been nerfed and buffed and nerfed and buffed a million times yet never felt balanced, never felt 'right'. either they dropped stuff that was too good such that only the clowns who farm them would ever be powerful and that always ended up being this small group of elites that were already powerful enough to pvp anyone who tried to come and fight them themselves, and were becoming more and more and more overpowered as they laid claim to the one and only 'ultimate enemy that drops the best stuff; OR, like right now, they were nerfed drop-wise to the point of not even being worth fighting, and thus completely removing any sort of 'endgame' or anything to do beyond killing the same stuff over and over that will never drop any of the last... what, 4 tiers of items?

and so people talk about garland alting. even though you have to get all the way to level 40 on this system where reaching level 40 would take about one billion times longer than when experience existed, plus force you to actually play the game and not afk, lol. oh plus keeping the character logged in for however many dozens of hours you'd need for your plc to reach 40, constantly leveling and not afking too much in between so your plc goes up as fast as possible. why? because it's currently the one and only way to get good things.

imo:

A) just stop clowning around and remove any item tier from the game that's higher than what the actual current content would logically drop, I honestly wish this was how it was from the get-go so things would be more balanced and all the higher tier stuff being completely un-used would maybe push people to be a little more proactive about seriously creating new content (not like it'll EVER HAPPEN by this point regardless though mirite)

B) just stop clowning around and make it so monsters feasible for anyone, anywhere to hunt as much as they want even if they're not in the 'kool kids klub' to hunt can drop even the best stuff. not just dragons, and just remove them from the game at last until in 30 years the actual content up to their level exists, since obviously it's never going to really work trying to balance them when there's no content in the game between highlands and them which is a pretty massive difference i guess

tl;dr basically i feel that gaku should at last cut the game to what it is instead of trying to hide ways for people to get stuff they 'shouldn't really be able to get' especially such that groups of ultra-nerd players become so much imbalanced-ly impossible to face compared to all the other players -- the exact same reason perm chests were removed. imo garland should be doable low-level as he's supposed to be the endgame of newbie island and his drops should match that and not be higher than like tier 4-5 stuff, nor should any nb boss's; and the dragons should probably just be flat-out removed or only give a lot of gold and no or crappy or just-up-to-the-best-tier-other-enemies-drop stuff, which shouldn't be higher than perhaps 1 higher than post-nb shops at most, OR the higher tier stuff should just become easier to obtain full-stop, from a variety of champs from any of the current late-game dungeons or areas, until the rest of the game's actually completed -- whoops i mean terulia lol

Elias stop posting on the forums to get everything removed, you don't even play


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Iris wrote:

Elias wrote:

it was (2005? 2006?) when irendi was added to the game.

at least six years

world of warcraft: the burning crusade wasn't even out yet

and with it, one single little hidden cave, at the very bottom, housed monsters strong enough to appease the power-players who might ever get strong enough to face them. just to give them *SOMETHING* to do since the rest of the game wasn't finished past level ~20-25 content at most.

argo was added since, but as more of a buffer between nb and the later game / an alternative to early vorg. then the dungeon was buffed slightly to be more of an alternative to maybe desert-early irendi level stuff with an emphasis on water monsters which were rare at the time.

there is no true endgame nor has there ever been except these stupid dragons who have been nerfed and buffed and nerfed and buffed a million times yet never felt balanced, never felt 'right'. either they dropped stuff that was too good such that only the clowns who farm them would ever be powerful and that always ended up being this small group of elites that were already powerful enough to pvp anyone who tried to come and fight them themselves, and were becoming more and more and more overpowered as they laid claim to the one and only 'ultimate enemy that drops the best stuff; OR, like right now, they were nerfed drop-wise to the point of not even being worth fighting, and thus completely removing any sort of 'endgame' or anything to do beyond killing the same stuff over and over that will never drop any of the last... what, 4 tiers of items?

and so people talk about garland alting. even though you have to get all the way to level 40 on this system where reaching level 40 would take about one billion times longer than when experience existed, plus force you to actually play the game and not afk, lol. oh plus keeping the character logged in for however many dozens of hours you'd need for your plc to reach 40, constantly leveling and not afking too much in between so your plc goes up as fast as possible. why? because it's currently the one and only way to get good things.

imo:

A) just stop clowning around and remove any item tier from the game that's higher than what the actual current content would logically drop, I honestly wish this was how it was from the get-go so things would be more balanced and all the higher tier stuff being completely un-used would maybe push people to be a little more proactive about seriously creating new content (not like it'll EVER HAPPEN by this point regardless though mirite)

B) just stop clowning around and make it so monsters feasible for anyone, anywhere to hunt as much as they want even if they're not in the 'kool kids klub' to hunt can drop even the best stuff. not just dragons, and just remove them from the game at last until in 30 years the actual content up to their level exists, since obviously it's never going to really work trying to balance them when there's no content in the game between highlands and them which is a pretty massive difference i guess

tl;dr basically i feel that gaku should at last cut the game to what it is instead of trying to hide ways for people to get stuff they 'shouldn't really be able to get' especially such that groups of ultra-nerd players become so much imbalanced-ly impossible to face compared to all the other players -- the exact same reason perm chests were removed. imo garland should be doable low-level as he's supposed to be the endgame of newbie island and his drops should match that and not be higher than like tier 4-5 stuff, nor should any nb boss's; and the dragons should probably just be flat-out removed or only give a lot of gold and no or crappy or just-up-to-the-best-tier-other-enemies-drop stuff, which shouldn't be higher than perhaps 1 higher than post-nb shops at most, OR the higher tier stuff should just become easier to obtain full-stop, from a variety of champs from any of the current late-game dungeons or areas, until the rest of the game's actually completed -- whoops i mean terulia lol

Elias stop posting on the forums to get everything removed, you don't even play

I can quote walls of text and reply with single-sentence replies and make irrelevent accusations that don't pertain to the topic too, Momoko.

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Please stay on topic.

Elias... a lot of people don't like the idea of removing content when there is no expansion. I just want dragons to be worth the time, like sustainable. Right now killing 1 dragon costs me upwards of 20k repairs and most likely will drop nothing... POSSIBLY 9-11k. OR an item that on average shops for 12-13k.

That's silly. I thought the idea of a constant gold drop would be fair considering that the 9-11k doesn't even cover my solo repairs farless the repairs of a team that actually kills dragons at any reasonable speed.

At least killing a dragon wouldn't require me to grind gold before hand to train with.

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Buzz buzz

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HEY, HEY LET'S FIX THIS INSTEAD OF TRYING TO ADD GLITCHES TO ABUSE ;)

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Killa wrote:

So as we all know, higher level items were given higher values, and dragon drops were nerfed, and dragon stats were buffed.

The last ember I killed, about 15 minutes before posting this.. was the 11th ember I've killed and probably the 40-50th dragon overall. Obviously they are killable with these buffed stats:

Scanning Ember Wyrm reveals the following:
Ember Wyrm - level: 32
HP: 584/29858 MP: 4/1063

To clarify the magic resist varies a lot with level.. my water 2 on this guy did about 135 whereas on the level 28 I do about 200 with water 2. My water 2 is prof 59 and I use a fine power staff.

This isn't the issue. I actually think dragons being challenging is fine.. however their rewards aren't.

Right now the average gold drop I see from dragons is 11k, and that's one in every 7 or so. In ALL of the dragons I have killed I have only gotten 3 item drops.
EDIT: SHOCKING NEWS, CLEAN FINE SORCERER BLOUSE ADDED TO DROP LIST

Grand Crimson Cloak
Chronos Staff
Mediocre Royal Gloves
Fine Sorcerer Blouse

The repairs for fighting dragons with this much HP are a lot more than the rewards... Killing just 2 embers put Me, Dricen, and Tairn at a combined repair bill of around 80k.

What I'm suggesting is that dragons have a constant gold drop... 11k is the average gold drop... and killing 1 dragon is usually more than that in repairs per person. But it would make doing them at least somewhat feasable. The drops are in no way remotely comparable to Garland, who even with nerfed drops is putting out Archwizard and Royal Speeds among other drops. I haven't spawned a Champion Dragon yet... but honestly I don't want to because the cost of killing it would probably outweigh the drops tenfold, especially considering that it would probably spawn with more, regular dragons.

I am also vouching that ember dragon HP get nerfed back into place with frost dragons considering that they now resist lightning and chain lit will never 4-shot them again. They are actually harder to kill because you can't firewall them.

EDIT: Ners made a pretty good point here:

Ners domain says: So garland alts are a better idea than dragons.

Garland drops are incredibly superior to anything dragons drop.. and it is by no means difficult to make a level 40 character to do Garland on.

This.

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Can someone explain this: Dragon drops was like around 28-37k gold, they was dropping too good items, then gaku changed, now they drop like 7-12k gold, they are dropping too bad items, why the hell just dont increase the drop to 17-22k, so he will not drop bad things but will not drop OP things.

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EPIC NEW DRAGON DROP.. THIS 1 DROP SINGLE HANDEDLY IS GOING TO IMBALANCE THE ENTIRE GAME COMPLETELY!

Grand Steel Spear

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Stop using this thread it's annoying.

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Isnt the point of the game is to get cool items? why take them from players?

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Why can't I use this thread again?

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This just in: Dragon drops still suck

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This is just in : FFO dont reverted yet.
xO!

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