The way things have been going this hosting, is really sad. Nothing will be able to save Terulia from suffering the same fate as FFO, unless changes are made in the rules and they are clear, and a clear chain of command is made.

I'll start with how horribly unfair punishments are, two people can commit the same crime, but not receive the same punishment. This has got to end, its bull****.

If there are going to be GMs and they abuse, there should be a set punishment for abuse, that they are aware of before they even become a GM, and a clear, understandable set of rules of exactly what is and is not allowed. I'll make another post about GMs later.

If I am correct in understanding that there are 4 admins, that in itself makes admin votes on issues have the possibility of ending in a tie. Whoever did this screwed up, I'm sorry for saying it, I'm not trying to offend you, we all make mistakes.

I know Sai was deleted, and possibly others. I'm not sure wether or not Blace was deleted, or if there was a bug. The
point here is that as long as admins are able to delete characters at will, and not held responsable for their actions, nobody is safe. I know alot of you don't care if Blace was deleted or not, but you might be next, so thing about that.

If anybody is ever going to be deleted for any offense, then everybody who commits that offense needs to be deleted. As for deletion for spam killing, this should not happen. There should be punishment, but not deletion, even if its the 5th or 6th, or 20th time somebody does it.

I'm not going to say much about it in this post, but the situation with Deylin and Tristram should have never happened. I'm going to get to that in more detail in another post though. For now, all I'll say is this. How could Deylin or Jeebs have done wrong when there are no clear rules regarding admin and GM?

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Anyone I've deleted has repeatedly and deliberately continued to break the rules. I started using deletion as an alternative to permanently banning people (as a courtesy no less). In Sai's case he admittedly was trying to be banned for good and he definitely achieved his goal.

I agree that those who use GM inappropriately should be held accountable and punished accordingly however there are currently no guidelines set for them to abide by. Also worth mentioning is that one of the people with GM is also an admin and therefore immune from punishment unless Gaku decides to step in.

There being an even number of admins has yet to bring us to any standstills.

Rule breaking is rule breaking. I've been administering punishments based on volume, not severity more or less. There of course are rare exceptions but the majority of rule breaking pertains to spam-killing and harassment.

As for your opinion that characters should be allowed to continuously spam kill without character deletion, well, you're entitled to that opinion but that's not how I'm going to personally enforce it.

If you're going to be a detriment to the community then you're going to face tangible consequences, not a slap on a wrist and a vacation from FFO.

Terulia is Terulia. It's not FFO and it's going to be drastically different both mechanically and fundamentally, when and if it ever comes out.

It's good to foresee possible abuse in a future game and take steps to prevent it but as development is kind of on hold for the time being there's really no use complaining about it here. I'd suggest posting suggestions for Terulia
here.

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I know you guys will decide wether or not deletion will happen, but the problem I see is that deletion for repeated spam killing could be unfair, because wether or not somebody gets banned for spam killing depends on so many things other than if they actually did it or not.

Theres the issue of proving it, or people trying to get othe rpeople banned for spam killing, and then all the times it happens when no admin is online to see it.

Then there is accidental spam killing, for example if you logged in for the first time that day and saw me in argo and hit me with a d3 and I had already been killed 3 or more times, but you didn't know I had been killed 3 times.

Also, will the admins ever make a list of what the punishment for breaking a given rule will be? That way we don't have one player banned for 3 weeks and another for 3 hours for the same offense.

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As Dean was kind of talking about, punishment shouldn't be based on the specific crime, but the severity, circumstances, number of offences, etc.

Currently we've been discussing and idea which also included the addition of numbers beside names on the who list that tells you how many times someone has died vs killed someone, so that could solve the accidental spam killing issue in a way.

As for people trying to get others banned for spam killing, its technically that person's fault if it works on them because they could walk away at any time. Not to mention you kill someone 3 times at your own risk, since the rule doesn't really mean you should kill someone 3 times then stop, but rather you get punished for any exceeding 3 in a single hour. (What I'm saying is that killing someone 3 times could still be excessive in some cases, even though you don't get punishment for "spamkilling". Therefore you do so at your own risk of getting the punishment if anything else happens after)

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The same could be said about the idea that, no matter how blatantly we state it in the rules, there are many players that will constantly push the spam-killing and harassment rules. This is a game, and it should be fairly enjoyed by everyone, not particular people. If you are so at the throat of someone, if someone pisses you off that freaking much that it becomes necessary to kill them as much as possible, then maybe a re-evaluation of how one plays the game is necessary.

There are a lot of times where spam-killing has been brought to us admins, and we try to judge these situations fairly, but the sad part is that we aren't psychic, and we can't figure out people's intentions. When players are constantly retaliating to the slightest thing, and when mass PvP tends to break out when three not-partied people exist simultaneously in Argo, we can't perfectly judged if someone intentionally tried to spam-kill, if they were lured through some loophole, if there was some bull**** thing like someone going, "UP!" as if to signify they had a life prompt.

Just to offer a little bit of a point-of-view, every single issue brought to me, the decision I made has caused the affected party to cry, "That's so unfair! You're an abusive/failure admin!" If someone gets banned? I'm doing my job wrong. If someone doesn't get banned? I'm doing my job wrong.

The rules are actually rather succinct, but I'm not going to sugarcoat it, a lot of you players are really ****ing bad at playing this game as if it were an actual game.

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"There are a lot of times where spam-killing has been brought to us admins, and we try to judge these situations fairly, but the sad part is that we aren't psychic, and we can't figure out people's intentions. When players are constantly retaliating to the slightest thing, and when mass PvP tends to break out when three not-partied people exist simultaneously in Argo, we can't perfectly judged if someone intentionally tried to spam-kill, if they were lured through some loophole, if there was some bull**** thing like someone going, "UP!" as if to signify they had a life prompt."



Thanks shane for explaining why there should be changes in the rules and/or administration.

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Pkftw wrote:

"There are a lot of times where spam-killing has been brought to us admins, and we try to judge these situations fairly, but the sad part is that we aren't psychic, and we can't figure out people's intentions. When players are constantly retaliating to the slightest thing, and when mass PvP tends to break out when three not-partied people exist simultaneously in Argo, we can't perfectly judged if someone intentionally tried to spam-kill, if they were lured through some loophole, if there was some bull**** thing like someone going, "UP!" as if to signify they had a life prompt."



Thanks shane for explaining why there should be changes in the rules and/or administration.

Because you think it's possible for perfect rules or perfect admins to be spawned?

The entire paragraph was an allegory to my point of how many members of the community just like to whine.

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So ignore the point of the topic and just rant about how things wont ever be changed and not try? Honestly there is always going to be someone to complain about the rules, but this hosting specifically has caused a cluster**** of problems, that probably could have been avoided by either A: going back to anarchy (if there are no rules you can't really complain about them) or B: Having an admin team that actually works well together and communicates to the point where they reach a mutual grounds in terms of punishments and rules.

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Pkftw wrote:

So ignore the point of the topic and just rant about how things wont ever be changed and not try? Honestly there is always going to be someone to complain about the rules, but this hosting specifically has caused a cluster**** of problems, that probably could have been avoided by either A: going back to anarchy (if there are no rules you can't really complain about them) or B: Having an admin team that actually works well together and communicates to the point where they reach a mutual grounds in terms of punishments and rules.

I was actually trying to portray that we are doing are jobs pretty damned well. Going back to anarchy would not have prevented these problems. Anarchy did not work the first time, there is no reason to think that it would ever work a second time. The admin team does work well together; I'd love to hear your idea of a better team, honestly, considering everyone that currently actively plays FFO.

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Considering half the admin team isn't even active or has any idea what goes on half the time, yeah they are pretty epic I...guess. Also I have zero complaints about anarchy it brought life to the game actually last time. Maybe it was just the change of rules or lack of them, but it was quite fun imo, and you can't really argue against my personal opinions.

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Pkftw wrote:

Considering half the admin team isn't even active or has any idea what goes on half the time, yeah they are pretty epic I...guess. Also I have zero complaints about anarchy it brought life to the game actually last time. Maybe it was just the change of rules or lack of them, but it was quite fun imo, and you can't really argue against my personal opinions.

I can, by pointing out that anarchy ultimately brought about abuse through the playerbase. It had to be done away because the playerbase proved that they could not handle the privilege. I see no reason to think that it would be better this time around.

I have in fact been out of commission for two months because of my job, so I can not comment on whether or not the other admins have been doing a good job recently.

By the way, you didn't elaborate on who you think would do a better job. If there's anyone you can think of that would be better than us, by all means you should nominate them. It is kind of hard for us to fix issues when you tell us there's an issue then call us incompetent when we ask what the issue is.

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The issue is people getting treated differently because of which side they are on and who they know, i'm sure you'll just take what I'm saying and run for the hills but to say the least this admin team blows... with the exception of Jeebs and Darlute.

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Pkftw wrote:

The issue is people getting treated differently because of which side they are on and who they know, i'm sure you'll just take what I'm saying and run for the hills but to say the least this admin team blows... with the exception of Jeebs and Darlute.

I find that hard to believe considering that Nolynn just got her **** ruined, and has been banned on multiple occasions herself.

There have not even been that many bans since we changed the rules. More times than not in every situation that's reported to us we decide to take no action. I mean, if you guys want, we can start banning people with the very smallest of concrete evidence, but both sides have been forgiven and both sides have been banned for issues.

And you still did not answer who you think would make better admins. I would like to request you stop saying any of us are incompetent and that the team needs to be changed if you can not at least offer players who would better it.

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You missed my point entirely, Deylin abused GM and got just key banned so far... If I did that I know for a fact my characters would already be gone or at the very least I would be ip banned for like 3+ weeks. Now lets compare her punishment to marcus's which her offense could quite possibly be worse depending on who you ask. Now lets bring up when black did that whole "up" ordeal and instead of banning someone on your "side" you decided to discuss changing the rules, If it was me do you think dean would have just talked it out with us? Or do you think I would have just been banned or had my **** deleted? Please answer honestly and i'm like done with this post it's 4 am. I might ask someone how you reply to this. Also at this point Locke would be a better admin than dean imo just my opinion though.

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Pkftw wrote:

You missed my point entirely, Deylin abused GM and got just key banned so far... If I did that I know for a fact my characters would already be gone or at the very least I would be ip banned for like 3+ weeks. Now lets compare her punishment to marcus's which her offense could quite possibly be worse depending on who you ask. Now lets bring up when black did that whole "up" ordeal and instead of banning someone on your "side" you decided to discuss changing the rules, If it was me do you think dean would have just talked it out with us? Or do you think I would have just been banned or had my **** deleted? Please answer honestly and i'm like done with this post it's 4 am. I might ask someone how you reply to this. Also at this point Locke would be a better admin than dean imo just my opinion though.

It was found that her 'abuse' was a very bad choice of action for a relatively solid judgment. She had her entire domain destroyed, which affected tons of people, over the smallest thing, with no attempt to ask her for her side of the story, and it is not going to be rolled back. Not only that, she also was banned on the key that has all of her main characters. The punishment not only wrecked her key but also affected everyone that lived in Tristram. Where along the lines are we giving her special treatment?

The deletion of Marcus' characters was a mistake, and I have admitted to that fault multiple times. Are you going to do anything about it or just constantly bring it up like it means something?

If you did what Nolynn did, I am fairly sure your entire domain would have been wrecked too with no one attempting to communicate to you about what happened, too.

Locke doesn't actively play for arthritis or whatever it was. He hardly posts in the forums, and I've seen him do very little with his job as a global admin. I won't approve or deny your opinion, I'm just offering a few points on how he wouldn't be the perfect admin.

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I had a few points while reading this I wanted to bring up, nef claims to have spawned pugs and bahamuts for items for events like magnus did, however not only did she obtain ancient bane chuck, giants bane blade and 2 wizard staves, the prizes I've obtained from magnus events have been first off a ****ing poor samurai bracer, and later on rogue flash shirt of snake are only 2 of the things given out at events, I got a rarity on nolynn's "graduation event" where I won a bl tornado helm


However event rewards have never been and should never be pug items or bahamut items, did she really intend to give them away? She also claimed later to be shopping them in nb when they could be trashed in trist shops and cycled, now, if it was some nub maybe that could cover up muling ****, but this is ****ing nolynn she isn't that retarded, she did however make the most retarded cover up ever

It was blatant abuse and she dug herself deep with ****ty defences, I would appreciate if the powers were removed and maybe char deletion(to be fair, wud be sad if nef got deleted, less RW competition)

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reply to The Hitman:

I have no real comment on most of your post except I wish to point out that I gave her the Ancient Bane-Chuck which I obtained one time when there was a full Pug wipe as hosted by Gaku except for my Master who was a Stun*** and won by sheer chance.

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reply to Shane:

Well, giants bane blade and 2 wizzies, gib her those? Although that's cool, still at the least 3 items that would never touch event participants and going through trouble to shop them, I don't see how she derped that hard truly

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The Hitman wrote:

reply to Shane:

Well, giants bane blade and 2 wizzies, gib her those? Although that's cool, still at the least 3 items that would never touch event participants and going through trouble to shop them, I don't see how she derped that hard truly

I don't see a way to prove whether or not she shopped them, or if she kept them. We can't really punish people on speculation or, "well knowing HER..."

I mean, knowing you, your brother gets on your account all the time. In fact, I'm pretty sure just earlier I read a post by your brother on this account. That's not enough for us to ban you for unnecessary keysharing though.

I wish we could tell but there are things we can't know for certain, and any time we Admins do something serious, a lot of drama appears on the forum. This thread is about berating us for not doing our job properly, because some users might get 'special' treatment, or others might be particularly hated, but I assure you we carefully consider all sides of an issue. It's not going to be our job to please everyone when either half of the playerbase is displeased depending on what action we take. That's an unreasonable idea.

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You don't know what goes on with Magnus and his events so I'm not going to disclose what happens to give you all the nice gear and gold that you all never complain about getting.



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